			    TRAVELLER Digest 475

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Who Cares? (Obviously, some do) by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
  2) High Displacment Vessels by HA282PMR01@ntu.ac.uk (Paul Radford)
  3) List trouble? by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
  4) Questions about Gerome and Huderu by lewis@chara.gsu.edu
  5) Super Gun by lewis@chara.gsu.edu
  6) Re: Error? by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  7) Andor and Candory by Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
  8) Dark Traveller by chiggin@dolphins.ssc.nasa.gov (Cynthia Higginbotham x7277)
  9) Tidal Effects by Wesley.Esser@hd62.haledorr.com
 10) Antimatter compression and oort clouds..... by nrunner@ix.netcom.com (Archie T. )
 11) Re: TRAVELLER digest 474 by library@dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
 12) Re: TRAVELLER digest 474 by "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 07:24:59 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Who Cares? (Obviously, some do)
Message-ID: <01HXCQDK0XMA8Y50XD@pimacc.pima.edu>

From:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  2-NOV-1995 21:52:26.98
To:	IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC:	
Subj:	Who Cares? (Obviously, some do)

From: Susan Marie Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Who Cares? (Obviously, some do)
Sender: traveller@MPGN.COM

This discussion regarding jump grids vs. jump coils confuses me. We don't know
why GDW approved the Starship Operator's Manual; maybe they had to contract-
wise. What difference does it really make except for those who want to nitpick?
it's GDW's game; they can change it if they want. Ships still enter jump space
in TNE. I'm sorry, but I fail to see the relevance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, I submit that GDW, for one, must care about it more than a little. 
Otherwise, why did they go to the trouble of specifically doing away with
what went before? And sure it's their's & they can mess it up as they see
fit. But it's also my considerable investment that they're messing up at
the same time. Which is mine to complain about, as I see fit.

Phil
p.s. In the end the only way most of us have of influencing GDW is to 
negatively review their efforts & hope they change. These mailing lists
help facilitate that.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 13:04:16 +0100
From: HA282PMR01@ntu.ac.uk (Paul Radford)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: High Displacment Vessels
Message-ID: <95110713041527@newvax.ntu.ac.uk>

Hi,

With BR came a number of high displacement tonnage starships. Where have
all these ships come from. What CT, MT products are the source for these
vessels?

I particularly refer to:
BB Sylea	BB Voroshilef
BT Cleon	BT Triumph
BR Admiral	BR Gallant
ED Rapier	CA Mercury
CL Starburst

As I sort of faded away during the MT era, i have no materials from that
time. I'm working on a BR-TCS type game and i really need to know how much
it costs (MCr) to build these things. Does anyone know?

Has anyone actually designed any of these vessels with FF&S?

Thanks in advance.

Paul Radford


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 07:39:51 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: List trouble?
Message-ID: <01HXCR3NNJ5A8Y50XD@pimacc.pima.edu>

I jus recieved 2 (individual) msgs this morning (TUE) but I
recieved notheing on the 4th, 5th & 6th. Is something wrong?

Phil

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 11:28:10 -0500
From: lewis@chara.gsu.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Questions about Gerome and Huderu
Message-ID: <9511071628.AA13653@chara.gsu.edu>

	John Bogan mentioned that Lewis/Armis already had been
developed in the Traveller Adventure, so I thought I would move the
idea from the RICE paper on Lewis to another Red Zone in the Spinward
Marches.  Looking through the Regency
handbook, the best two canidates were Gerome/Rhylanor/Spinward Marches
and Huderu/Rhlanor/Spinward Marches.  So does anyone know of any
mention of either of these two worlds in any Traveller module,sourcebook,etc.  If 
	I'll also develop a RICE paper on Lewis using the information John posted.

 
Lewis Roberts

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 11:28:17 -0500
From: lewis@chara.gsu.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Super Gun
Message-ID: <9511071628.AA13661@chara.gsu.edu>

 
450mm Super Gun
The perfect weapon for your friendly neighborhood TED.  The Super Gun
is designed as a terror weapon.  The general idea is to aim it 
the enemy country, or rebellious province, and just fire away.  
Since there probably aren't any foward observers, it is fairly unaccurate,
but it will hit somewhere. You don't know where it will land, but neither
does the enemy.  

TL: 6
Ammo: 1 x 450mm-6 RAP
Bore Size: 45 cm
Length: 45m
Muzzle Energy: 700 MJ
Weight: 84.5 tonnes       Carriage Weight: 350 tonnes
Loading Assistance Weight: 8.4 tonnes 
Total Weight 442.5 tonnes
Range: 134 KM
Reload Time: 630 turns (52.5 minutes)
Crew: 45 
Price: MCr 2.48
Notes: Indirect Firing Sights.  Fire Direction Centers
were not installed, because at TL-6 the range the weapon
far outstrips the range of the centers.

All of the below artilery shells are Rocket Assisted
Projectiles.  The weight of the projectile, RAP, and 
propellant is 13.5 tonnes

450mm Shells
Type    Damage          Pen Val      Price (MCr)      
 HE      C:253 B:159      61C           .125       
Chem     C:3   B:253      Nil           .05       
RDM      C:0   B:1013     Nil           .50


This is the biggest gun allowed under the rules for CPR guns,
I tried to fit 5th and higher order polynomials to the given 
data, but it wasn't a very good fit.  If anyone knows of a
better way to extrpolate the data, I liked to hear it.

Lewis Roberts
 

------------------------------

Date: 07 Nov 1995 12:09:20 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Error?
Message-ID: <61438.71743938@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

>***Another error!***
>
>pg 48  The droyne worlds are both classified as "Red Zone" *and* have 
>       starport C ports *and* have massively increased tech levels (from 9 
>       to D on Andor, 8 to E in Candory)

Is this an error, or an updating of obselete information?  I've spotted a
couple of cases where Ancient sites have appeared, as well.  I just assumed
that these were sites that were found between surveys.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:49:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Andor and Candory
Message-ID: <199511071949.UAA06020@embla.diku.dk>

Alvin Plummer writes: 
> ***Another error!***
> 
> pg 48  The droyne worlds are both classified as "Red Zone" *and* have 
>        starport C ports *and* have massively increased tech levels (from 9 
>        to D on Andor, 8 to E in Candory)

Do you mean that it's a mistake that the interdicts have not been removed
or that it's a mistake to have C starports on interdicted worlds? If I
remember correctly Andor and Candory have always had C starports. I always
interpreted this to mean that the Droyne of Andor had jump-1 starships of
their own and had colonies on Candory. (I've also assumed that the Droyne
themselves are free to come and go as they please and that the interdict
only applies to outsiders (Note that there is a Droyne Free Trader from
Andor mentioned in "Merchants")).

The increased TLs does seem to indicate that they are changing their
age-old way of life. It's interesting that Candory has reached a higher TL
than Andor. Hmmm... that's going to take a bit of explaining.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:25:58 -0600 (CST)
From: chiggin@dolphins.ssc.nasa.gov (Cynthia Higginbotham x7277)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (Traveller Mailing List)
Cc: cyhiggin@aol.com (Nin Asbarode)
Subject: Dark Traveller
Message-ID: <199511072225.QAA15196@dolphins.ssc.nasa.gov>

<<<<<
Commander X's Tales from the line vol 3
"DARK TRAVELLER"
or
"Galaxy of Darkness"

Part one: Vampires.

This is an example of game fusion.  White Wolf's "World of Darkness" Seting
applied and reconfiged(hacked is a better word) to fit with GDW's Traveller
Universe.
[rest snipped...]
>>>>>


Damn! You beat me to it; I still haven't gotten around to rewriting
my Classic Traveller vampires to TNE. I wanted to improve them with
some ideas from my writing, anyway. 

I did it slightly differently.. my vampires are the result of a
recombinant-DNA virus, distantly related to HIV. You get infected,
it slowly rebuilds you, and incidently damages your immune system
(ever notice how people in novels that are bitten by vampires but
not killed never seem to live to old age, anyway?). However, the
on/off switch on the gene mods is, well, clinical death and loss
of oxygen supply to the cells...

Oh, yeah, and for some reason dying tends to activate latent
psionic abilities... thus many of the so-called "supernatural" 
abilities of the vampire. (Actually, the difference between psi
and the supernatural is a matter of definitions). 

Some day I'll get around to writing them up for TNE again; right
now I'm busy writing them down for publication (someday, I hope!).
Some day, I'll surprise some group of PCs with them.

BTW, why NPC villains, Commander X?  Why not NPC patrons? After all,
in a high-tech society, one doesn't need to run around ripping 
people's throats out to get blood.  And with sentient aliens about,
surely vampires long ago got over that "It's okay to kill people,
they're only mortals and not our kind anyway" mentality too many of
the 20th century ones seem to have.  (Most of alt.vampyres would
fail Basic Interstellar Relations 101...)


A related topic:

Got the Regency Source Book. Haven't had time to read it, but I 
did notice the sidebar on "Ghouls".  You know, GDW better thank
its lucky stars that I'm probably the only reader of alt.gothic
that also plays TNE...
...OTOH, they (the Goths) might find it funny... if completely 
clueless about an important aspect of what GDW was obviously doing
a takeoff of...

	-- Cynthia, Not actually a Goth, I just read there.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:25:03 -0500
From: Wesley.Esser@hd62.haledorr.com
To: Rob Miracle <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Tidal Effects
Message-ID: <"749*/G=Wesley/S=Esser/OU=hd62/O=hale and dorr/PRMD=haledorr/ADMD=mci/C=US/"@MHS>







Les Howie and James Kundert have been talking about tidal effects 
lately, and I had to add my .02..

James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us> wrote

>>  I know that, on free-water bearing worlds like Earth, tidal effects
>>caused by moons and/or the primary create a double high-tide. One high
>>tide lobe points toward the main cause of the effect, while the other
>>is exactly opposite.  What I don't know is whether the second lobe is
>>an integral part of the tidal process or merely a side-effect.

And Les Howie repsonded

>Integral.  The near-side lobe is caused by the gravity of the companion
>object (hereafter abreviated as "moon").   The far side lobe is caused by
>the fact that 
>the earth and moon co-revolve around a point which is NOT at the centre of
>the earth -- the far side is the result of centrifugal force.

Actually, this is not quite true.  Tides are caused by differential 
gravitational attraction; i.e., the pull of gravity is varies with distance
from the attracting object.  The fact that attraction varies in an inverse
square relationship makes the difference from one side of the world to the 
other.  

>> If we
>>were to slow down the Earth's rotation to a fraction of its current
>>angular velocity, would the far-side tidal lobe still be there?  Would
>>it grow? Shrink? Vanish entirely?

>Its is caused by ROTATION not REVOLUTION so, it would remain.

Both lobes are caused by differential attraction.  If you consider the 
center of the planet as being attracted by a value of 1, then the closest 
side to the attracting body is pulled at a value greater than 1, and the 
side opposite at something less than 1.  This places the maximum tidal
bulges facing and opposite the attracting mass.  The reason for the far side
bulge is not that the water is pulled in the other direction, but that the planet
is being pulled out from under the water, which is attracted less.
(note - all these things apply equally to water and the planetary crust 
itself - planetary crust just is more rigid and doesn't react as quickly
as water)

>>  Given the SF literature I've read, I tend to think that, at some point,
>>the second lobe vanishes.  This certainly should happen for tidally-locked
>>worlds, as I use Robert Forward's "Rocheworld" as an example of this. But
>>what about almost locked worlds?  When does the second lobe appear?

>It's always there: a tidaly locked world, of course, would not have "tides"
>in the sense of a change in water level - the points in line with the
>companion are always at high water, the points 90 degrees away are always at
>low.

A tidally locked world would probably have some "tides" caused by the minor 
peterbations in the it's orbit in relation to the attracting body.  They 
would generally be less than regular earth type tides.

>The way to eliminate tidal buldges it to increase the seperation between the
>companions.

>For some good bits and pieces on such things check out this JPL page:

>http://oel-www.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf.htm

You should also check out the appendecis of Forward's books - he does a pretty
good job with tidal effects there.  Also Asmiov's book "Extra-Terrestrial 
Civilization" and Neil Comin's "What if the moon didnt exist" both deal with
the subject.  It's a pretty fascinating subject, and would determine the shape
of many worlds in Imperial space.

Wes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:30:45 -0800
From: nrunner@ix.netcom.com (Archie T. )
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Antimatter compression and oort clouds.....
Message-ID: <199511080330.TAA03990@ix9.ix.netcom.com>

>click<....
Lurker mode off...
        TNE _IS_ a dark setting, but if you fall back to MT, you go from
TNE (marginal) TL-17 down to MT TL-16 (lossing 10+ trillion people is,
I feel, a bit too dark, though).
 
  Now assuming have thought about compressing it via antimatter, to compress:
       
      center
      2  (compression resistance)     -  2/3   (TOTAL explosive force) dr
                                              
     r=outer edge                            same
        H2 filled sphere
                     
                      (math stuff deleted.....)
                               
                                or!.....

  kg antimatter needed =  2.6 * 10^-13 * [kg mass of H2 sphere] ^9

1 kg antimatter = .625 Mcr (MT quote)
   This compresses the H2 1 million fold. The H2 sphere __MUST__ be
completely precooled to <100 kelvin (see below).

        yep.....I said kg^9! ouch.......

        This is good for compressing fuel. It MAY be good for a warhead,
but you would have to find a way to heat it to 10^8 kelvin (nuclear damper in
reverse??) Pressure is very important to the H1+H1 fusion reaction, but the
temperature must be about 10^8 K (the entire mass, that is) for it to start.
Since PV=NRT, a sphere at <100 K compressed 10^6 fold would produce a
compressed T of <10^8 K...safe (this is a relative term!)
        A thin shell of antimatter compress the H2, then another shell 
forms
a diamond 'coating' from a thick carbon source to keep it stable. It 
then
needs ~6 weeks cooling with a nuke damper to keep H+H reaction down in 
the
condenced matter 'blob'. A nuclear damper after that time period is NOT
needed.

    On the subject of oort clouds, I have a few ideas on how to build a 
station that won't be found:

    o Black globes (Factor 1, to decrease local temperature, IR should 
be the main way to find a station, beside:
    o Grav generators (to negate gravity signature of the asteroid and 
station gravity, which can be detected lond distance)
    o EMM (for shipborne stealth, see below)
    o Methane compounds (use as a degraded EMM, for stealth on the 
cheap. For surface of asteroids)
    O Quantum stealth (decrease number of photons emitted by increasing 
their average energy. VERY hard and of questionable usefullness: An 
opponent can't find you they dont absorb many photons from your 
station. This is essentially EMM, but can be developed more (tech 
sensitive.)
    o Heat storage and dump at a non-visible place (liq H2 evaporation)
    o Jump1 capable mega-ships (absorbs asteroids for fuel, lower IR 
signature)

    Please, email me with ideas/suggestions:)    Nrunner


-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
Copywight - 1994 Elmer Fudd ink.  All wights wesewved.                                            




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 17:06:46 -0600
From: library@dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 474
Message-ID: <199511090304.RAA23443@babylon5.dss.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

1.      DROYNE RENAISSANCE

In digest 474, Alvin said that the following was an error:

>pg 48  The droyne worlds are both classified as "Red Zone" *and* have 
>       starport C ports *and* have massively increased tech levels (from 9 
>       to D on Andor, 8 to E in Candory)

Why is this an error? I've always assumed the the interdiction was only for
non-Droyne. I don't think that Droyne are excluded from their own worlds.
Remember that the Navy OR the IISS can interdict a world. Perhaps the
interdiction has been requested by the Droyne themselves, to only allow local
Droyne to leave and return from the systems.

The next nearest Droyne system is Auitowry (sp?) in the Rift, which is TL 15.
If you want Droyne PC's (or even NPC's), they have to come from somewhere.
Candor and Andory are the best choices.

Note that both are Ancient sites. maybe the interdict is to protect these
areas - and remember that no-one in the Regency knows where Eskayloyt (SP?)
- the Droyne's Lost Home - is. They *think* that it could be A or C - and are
taking no chances on artifact weapons ending up in the wrong hands.

2.      HULL GRIDS AND THE JUMP SHIP CONCEPT

In digest 472, Charles Collin said:

>For those wanting to carry ore strapped to the outside, you need a big
>lanthanum net (I remember seeing an illustration of this somewhere...).

The illustration is from _Supplement 9: Fighting Ships_. A craft known as a
"Jump Ship" is shown on pp 22-23. The design notes say:

"Comments: The jump ship is designed to provide maximum flexibility in
interstellar transportation. As built, it is capable of jump-6 and 1-G. Special
field cables attached to the rear of the ship extend the ship's jump field to
include this additional cargo. Alterations in displacement will affect the size
of the jump itself, but the amount of cargo carried can be varied to fit the
needs."

"Capabilities: For each 1,000 tons of cargo carried in the mesh cables behind
the ship, jump is decreased by one. Thus, if the 5,000-ton ship carries 1,000
tons behind it, it can only perform jump-5. If it carries 5,000 tons behind it,
it can only perform jump-1. In all cases, the internal fuel tankage of the ship
(3,300 tons) is sufficient to support the jump."

"Jump Pods: The jump ship can transport valuable raw ores, planetoid chunks, and
other materials directly in its jump mesh. Only durable goods can be carried in
this manner because they are exposed directly to the vacuum of space."
"To allow the transport of other materials, jump pods have been constructed in a
variety of designs. Typically, each displaces 1,000 tons and can function
independently of the jump ship. Some basic designs for jump pods include the
following:"
"Cargo Pod: A bulk carrier displacing 1,000 tons and carrying approximately 950
tons of cargo. Several varieties are available, including special liquid
tankers, bulk food or grain carriers, and compartmented transport containers.
MCr 100."
"Passenger Pod: A large pressurised hull with 225 staterooms, plus recreational
facilities, safety compartmentalisation, and fittings for comfort. MCr 212.5."
"Low Pod: Similar to a passenger pod, the low pod is fitted with 1900 low berths
for carrying people or animals long distances. MCr 195."

"Additional types of pods are available, and have probably been produced
somewhere in the Imperium."
_Supplement 9: Fighting Ships_, GDW, USA, 1981, p22.

I have always assumed the following:
  - the cables are lanthanum-doped and act as an extension of the hull grid;
  - the jump pods have their own integral hull grid (as Charles agreed) plus
their own power supply in case of failure of either the jump ship's power or the
umbilical conection to the pod, AND so that they can be swapped around in orbit.

...and despite what GDW alters, you can go on diong what you want to in your own
campaign. Isn't that why they allowed all those "alternate technologies" into
the FF&S book??!!

3.      LUCAN LIVES!

In digest 473, Michael said:

>(while watching Paul Keating get interviewed on TV...I wonder if I'm making a
>subconscious comparison between the PM and Lucan?)...

Probably - don't we all?

>Unable to move, unable to die, Lucan will suffer punishment without end for the
>horror that he unleashed...

If only the same could be said for Paul...! ;-)

- Hyphen
 (David Jaques-Watson)


------------------------------

Date:          Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:56:18 +0000
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 474
Message-ID: <199511080857.AAA28505@igc3.igc.apc.org>

> From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>

> 
> ***Another error!***
> 
> pg 48  The droyne worlds are both classified as "Red
> Zone" *and* have starport C ports *and* have massively
> increased tech levels (from 9 to D on Andor, 8 to E in
> Candory)

Where's the error?  Supplement 3, The Spinward Marches, 
listed those Droyne worlds as interdicted, yet possessed of 
tech levels and starports.  Book 7, Merchant Prince, 
describes Thyo Supud, a Droyne free trader "formed by a 
Droyne kroyloss ... from Andor."  (Book 7 at 9.)  The 
interdiction of the Droyne worlds has always seemed to keep 
non-Droyne out, not to keep Droyne in.  Why wouldn't the 
Droyne improve their situation during the rebellion and 
collapse?

--Glenn

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 475
***************************
